Curse

daze · Nov 16, 2008, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

I think what they need to do is to increase the current methods' factions a bit more. The current amount does not factor in failures and waiting time, whereas the HFFF is pretty much 100% successful and 0 waiting time. I would hate it if some crazy patrol or boss wipes out my party right before I finish vanquishing an area and therefore miss the bonus faction. HFFF does not have that problem.

I have the perfect resolution for this.

Get better at GW.

Arkantos · Nov 16, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

I think what they need to do is to increase the current methods' factions a bit more. The current amount does not factor in failures and waiting time, whereas the HFFF is pretty much 100% successful and 0 waiting time. I would hate it if some crazy patrol or boss wipes out my party right before I finish vanquishing an area and therefore miss the bonus faction. HFFF does not have that problem.

Solution: Don't fail. Vanquishing most of the kurzick/luxon areas is easy. Even if you do wipe, you res at shrine until your party is dp'd out. If your party is dp'd out, you're doing something wrong.

UnChosen · Nov 16, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

I have the perfect resolution for this.

Get better at GW.

Or maybe you should stop assuming I can't do the vanquishing easily. All I am saying is that the "they just gave us more options" is not exactly correct because no one in the game can be completely perfect all the way through the 80+ times doing vanquishing, even a few DC can shave a quite a bit of time away. Therefore the new options are slower.

Going through the entire game 80 times is also just as boring and grindy. The only difference is it being unbottable. The funnest stuff is AB/FA/JQ, but the waiting time for all 3 is ridiculous, not to mention you have to win for it to come even close to HFFF, and is still slower than the book grind.

If update is meant to promote skill play the pve gameplay bonus should at least be equal to HFFF in rate, the the pvp options should be far above HFFF.

daze · Nov 16, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

I cant really give an objective opinion since i have never done HFFF. But i have vanquished all of tyra and elona on 2 different characters. I can imagine that i will have no trouble breezing through the vanq in Cantha. And honestly, anybody should be able to do the same. Maybe the reason i fly through vanq so fast is because i play on 2 computers at the same time so i can use 6 heroes, but i wouldnt imagine a person using one account would do it much slower.

I have been reading a few threads about the new faction gain and it seems that people are demolishing the times and faction gain for accrual of Lux/Kurz faction so i can only assume that the new method is far superior to the old.

The only thing i can see that Anet took out of faction gain is the mindlessness of HFFF. "Sigh" now everybody has to sit in front of the keyboard and click a few skills while using some navigation keys to gain faction.

If you are worried about failing or party wiping while in a vanq, then my resolution remains. Get better at GW so you dont have to worry about party wiping. At the very least, get better at retreating and pack a couple res scrolls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Solution: Don't fail. Vanquishing most of the kurzick/luxon areas is easy. Even if you do wipe, you res at shrine until your party is dp'd out. If your party is dp'd out, you're doing something wrong.

i guess he said it better than i did.

daky · Nov 16, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

First off getting both titles is way easier now. I was able to farm 200k luxon in just under three hours. Before it was good to get 10k an hour, GG to an additional 60-70k per hour. I for one love this update.

As for the above stated, if you are dp'd out during a vanquish then your doing something horribly wrong.

~Unfaithful

Konig Des Todes · Nov 16, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

I think what they need to do is to increase the current methods' factions a bit more. The current amount does not factor in failures and waiting time, whereas the HFFF is pretty much 100% successful and 0 waiting time. I would hate it if some crazy patrol or boss wipes out my party right before I finish vanquishing an area and therefore miss the bonus faction. HFFF does not have that problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Or maybe you should stop assuming I can't do the vanquishing easily. All I am saying is that the "they just gave us more options" is not exactly correct because no one in the game can be completely perfect all the way through the 80+ times doing vanquishing, even a few DC can shave a quite a bit of time away. Therefore the new options are slower.

Only issue I've ever had was either getting disconnected, or the enemies had builds that my group's builds couldn't counter - which usually happened with the first few groups, which meant fast restarting. So no time really wasted.

Also, with the new comeback thingy (whatever you want to call it) getting disconnects are minor issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Going through the entire game 80 times is also just as boring and grindy. The only difference is it being unbottable. The funnest stuff is AB/FA/JQ, but the waiting time for all 3 is ridiculous, not to mention you have to win for it to come even close to HFFF, and is still slower than the book grind.

If update is meant to promote skill play the pve gameplay bonus should at least be equal to HFFF in rate, the the pvp options should be far above HFFF.

This only really becomes grind when you have one character. If you have multiple characters, especially if you didn't do Factions on them, then go through, get 10/13 Protector and 13/13 Guardian (with 6/25 and 3/20 of other campaigns) and get 7/33 Vanquisher on each character. With the books, mission faction, vanquishing faction, and quests, you got to get a couple ranks. Then you can do Challenge missions (at least aim for 100 points to raise your cap), do FA/JQ, and AB (again, at least to raise your faction cap), which will give you more faction.

You can get 14,250 faction per character via non-repeatable quests, 9k for NM missions, 9k for HM missions, 40k for 1 NM book, 120k for 1 HM book, 90k for the Young Heroes book, 34,360 from Vanquish (non-boss bonus bounty-wise *based on average enemy counts*), 12,500 from Vanquish (boss-bonus bounty-wise),and 85,900 from Vanquish (after-count *based on average enemy counts*). That gets you 165,010 faction and 250k straight to the title, which means if you get skills or donate faction, you get double 165,010 faction, which gives you 330,020 faction to the title, add the 250k, you get 580,020 with no AB, JA, FA, repeatable quests, or Challenge missions. That right there for just ONE character, gives you rank 4.

Lets say you have 8 characters (have all three campaigns, never bought character slots, and have all filled with PvE characters). That gives you 4,610,160 points to the title. That means rank 9, less then 400k from rank 10, and about half-way to maxing.

And of course this is not including getting the bounty while doing quests.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Edit: Also, if you are going after just one of the two titles, and not both, you can wait for the territory line and Vanquish the other side, wasting the finishing reward, but giving about another 46,860 faction - 93,720 points to the title, giving you approxamatly 4,703,880 points to the title. With the bounty while doing quests, you can probably add 50 enemies per quest, and with 10 faction per enemy, and 17 quests, that would average out to be 8.5k faction ->17k title points, which then goes to the grand total of 4,750,880 for working on Kurzick and not Luxon, with 8 characters, only counting PvE and no Challenge Missions or repeatable quests.
__________________________________________________ _______________

But then you have: Repeating the books. Repeating Vanquishing on the same character. Doing FA/JQ/AB. Doing Challenge Missions. And doing repeatable quests.

Note:Calculations where done for the Kurzick title, not the Luxon. Although it will be similar in point gain, it will be different as there is 1 more areas in the Luxon side, amounts of monsters will be different, and the amount of quests and their rewards will be different.

It can only be called grind for the second half of maxing the title, from rank 10 on, and of course, that is assuming you started at 0 points, 0 faction.

Whereas before, it was grind from rank 4ish on. They over halved the grind. Still room for improvement, but now only the dedicated will get r12 while everyone else can easily get up to r8 without any grind.

nos two · Nov 16, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

i think they shouldnt of mess w/ hff because some of us may only have half an hour or so and cant vanquish an area. they only nerfed it so it'd get rid of the bots that did the runs
if you want to grind books that may be for you but not for occupied people who have lives, jobs, children, etc...

daze · Nov 16, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by nos two

i think they shouldnt of mess w/ hff because some of us may only have half an hour or so and cant vanquish an area. they only nerfed it so it'd get rid of the bots that did the runs
if you want to grind books that may be for you but not for occupied people who have lives, jobs, children, etc...

HFFF was never a feature that was supported by ANet.. Just an exploit..

I myself get about an hour a day to play GW so i am limited to 1 vanquish per day. If you only have 30 minutes a day to play, then you should stick to doing missions or AB.

I have a 7 month old baby that i watch during the daytime so i can take up to 3 hours to vanquish an area some times (because i keep stepping afk to keep him entertained/fed/clean).

lol and if you really only have half an hour to play a game at a time, then you got the wrong game. Hardly anything in the game takes less than half an hour, save a few misisons and random quests.

Lorden · Nov 16, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

I Am Depressed! I need HFFF back.

Can you imagine doin Factions, the WORST campaign of them all, 90 Times!! 90 Fricken Times! That's ridiculous. Anet talks about taking away grinding, and adds more of it.

Give Us Back HFFF, please...

AB = 15-20 Mins for 1.5k +500 fact when u win! in 20 mins of HFFF, I could get at least 6k fact.

Oh well...what ever, Anet Fail Moar Plox. <3

daze · Nov 16, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorden

I Am Depressed! I need HFFF back.

Can you imagine doin Factions, the WORST campaign of them all, 90 Times!! 90 Fricken Times! That's ridiculous. Anet talks about taking away grinding, and adds more of it.

Give Us Back HFFF, please...

AB = 15-20 Mins for 1.5k +500 fact when u win! in 20 mins of HFFF, I could get at least 6k fact.

Oh well...what ever, Anet Fail Moar Plox. <3

Stop with the trolls please..

You have dozens of pages to read that explain in detail how the faction gaining system was IMPROVED. Im sorry your easy button was taken away and its a shame that you might have to resort to using a bit of brainpower to achieve your goal. But i invite you to read the previous pages in this thread among other threads talking about how much faster a person can gain faction compared to HFFF.

Garreth MacLeod · Nov 16, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

It has gotten easier to max out Titles

You left off "if you enjoy hard mode"

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Going through the entire game 80 times is also just as boring and grindy.

Agreed with the grindy part. Although I'm not sure about the boring part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

You can get 14,250 faction per character via non-repeatable quests, 9k for NM missions, 9k for HM missions, 40k for 1 NM book, 120k for 1 HM book, 90k for the Young Heroes book, 34,360 from Vanquish (non-boss bonus bounty-wise *based on average enemy counts*), 12,500 from Vanquish (boss-bonus bounty-wise),and 85,900 from Vanquish (after-count *based on average enemy counts*). That gets you 165,010 faction and 250k straight to the title, which means if you get skills or donate faction, you get double 165,010 faction, which gives you 330,020 faction to the title, add the 250k, you get 580,020 with no AB, JA, FA, repeatable quests, or Challenge missions. That right there for just ONE character, gives you rank 4.

There's an awful lot of hard mode shit in there. What about the people that don't like hard mode? Just SoL?

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Get better at GW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Solution: Don't fail

Why is it the "leet" players always give this kind of answer. As if everyone can be as "great" as they are at the game. Not everyone is the same, not everyone can match your "leetness". You, sirs, are pinheads for not understanding this.

My major complaint to this update is the nerf to hfff but let me explain why. I just recently got my daughter to playing the game with me again. We'd go and do a few hfff runs and then do something else. I knew that it would take a long time for us to get her title to any reasonable level. But, being the father that I am, I would tolerate 'click, click, click, click' for a while. After all, it got her back in the game.

Hard mode does not appeal to her. AB/FA/JQ does not appeal to her. That takes out almost all of the ways to earn faction. Repeating missions to fill books just seems like it might be even more of a grind than hfff was.

I'm just really frustrated right now. I've logged two hours since the update (used to be two hours minimum a night). My daughter has logged 15 minutes.

I'm sure most of you won't understand my point of view. Maybe when you grow up and have kids, you will. Unless you are today's typical parent and don't do anything with your kids.

Daenara · Nov 16, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garreth MacLeod

Why is it the "leet" players always give this kind of answer. As if everyone can be as "great" as they are at the game. Not everyone is the same, not everyone can match your "leetness". You, sirs, are pinheads for not understanding this.

I'm just really frustrated right now. I've logged two hours since the update (used to be two hours minimum a night). My daughter has logged 15 minutes.

I'm sure most of you won't understand my point of view. Maybe when you grow up and have kids, you will. Unless you are today's typical parent and don't do anything with your kids.

The allegiance titles were never supposed to be completed by the casual player. If you're not able to vanquish an area, you're probably part of the "casual" group, which means a 10 million faction title is not for you. The kurzick/luxon skills have been modified so that a low rank is almost as effective as a high rank. Unless you were planning on maxing the title, this argument makes no sense.

As for the rest of your post, I suggest you find out more about the demographic of gamers these days. You are not different because you have kids.

Xenomortis · Nov 16, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

If someone can't achieve something in the game, why should that someone get a title saying that they have achieved that particular something?
Previously, getting the max allegience rank usually meant "I've sat down, braindead, for hundreds of hours and clicked my mouse a lot". - (Unfortunatly it's still going to mean that, as almost everyone with the title has done it through HFFF and they still have that title after this update.)

If you don't like or can't do HM, then don't expect to get a title that either requires or promotes a lot of HM play. A-Net made it so the only way to max the allegience titles efficiently was through HM.
If you really don't want to do it in HM, then complete Factions in NM 250 odd times.

Titles are supposed to be an achievement, it's just a shame most of them are not.

Avarre · Nov 16, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garreth MacLeod

Why is it the "leet" players always give this kind of answer. As if everyone can be as "great" as they are at the game. Not everyone is the same, not everyone can match your "leetness". You, sirs, are pinheads for not understanding this.

If you're not skilled at the game you don't deserve to be as successful as someone who is. If your skill is a limitation, improve.

Clone · Nov 16, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

If someone can't achieve something in the game, why should that someone get a title saying that they have achieved that particular something?
If you don't like or can't do HM, then don't expect to get a title that either requires or promotes a lot of HM play. A-Net made it so the only way to max the allegience titles efficiently was through HM.

But, that isn't really at the heart of what I see as the problem here. Many people are capable of doing this! It is in our willingness to do it seventy-nine more times. Doing something once is an achivement. Doing it once or twice more to prove the first run wasn't blind luck is all well and good. But doing it eighty times is no less a stunning display that you have way too much free time than HFFF was.

So, yes, we are capable of this... if we wanted to quit our jobs, drop out of school, and make this a full time occupation. This is a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Having a game that makes you repeat it eighty times isn't my idea of fun. Just another hallmark of what made the once great Guild Wars into the now lackluster Grind Wars.

Xenomortis · Nov 16, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Agreed, the amount of grind necessary for this particular title is stupid is stupid. Mabye I wasn't clear enough, but I was referring to titles in general except where I mentioned the allegience title.
10 million is and has always been a stupid goal and one I'm content never to reach, unless I come to enjoy AB or the CMs a lot.

shmek · Nov 16, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Yeah right. Shame all my 14 character have gone through Factions from beginning to end. I've cleared all the four games with most of them. Had the books been retroactive, fine, I would have paid to get one book filled and then I would have started over... But they aren't, because devs "are worried about economy". Well, thanks to whoever decided we shall also get money by giving books in.

I'm not gonna AB anymore, I've been ABing so much it makes me sick now. So, what's left for people like me? Vanquishing. Vanquishing AGAIN. Or grinding books. Or giving up with this title

Books could have been the most viable and welcomed solution form me. Still, I'm not gonna play HM Factions 40 times now.

TOTALLY TRUTH

All 7 different profession characters of mine are DONE with missions .......... bummer. Must been a conference at ANET, "hey Jane, let's get non-players to play - and screw those that have been playing already. Great idea Jane, let's do it."

Garreth MacLeod · Nov 16, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daenara

The allegiance titles were never supposed to be completed by the casual player. If you're not able to vanquish an area, you're probably part of the "casual" group, which means a 10 million faction title is not for you. The kurzick/luxon skills have been modified so that a low rank is almost as effective as a high rank. Unless you were planning on maxing the title, this argument makes no sense.

First off, I"m not talking just about me but my daughter as well. I can do hard mode and have. Second, I didn't say "max", I said "Reasonable level". Nice how you only quoted part of what I said. And don't ask what 'reasonable' is. Ive asked and it seems to change every other week. Maybe it's the 'red-headed, Irish-descended, teenage female' in her coming out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daenara

As for the rest of your post, I suggest you find out more about the demographic of gamers these days. You are not different because you have kids.

I'm aware of the demographics. But I suspect that the folks who don't understand my PoV don't have kids they play video games with.

I'll get over the change. It's doesn't really affect me that much. It just has me frustrated at the moment. Whether my daughter gets over it or not will only impact whether we play GW together or something else. For now, it is gong to be something else.

Thanks for a reasonable response, I appreciate that. It was better than the pinhead responses from some others.

I think I'll just stop with this thread. It's not going to make things any different here in my household.

Striken7 · Nov 16, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garreth MacLeod

There's an awful lot of hard mode shit in there. What about the people that don't like hard mode? Just SoL?

YES!

My God, just look at SS, Lightbringer, and EoTN reputation titles. The ONLY way to max those is through Hard Mode.

Why on Earth should someone who can't do Hardmode have an equally easy time maxing a title as someone who can? That's completely backwards logic that has nothing to do with your high-horse status of being a parent.

Sjeng · Nov 16, 2008, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by daky

First off getting both titles is way easier now. I was able to farm 200k luxon in just under three hours.
~Unfaithful

Please oh please share with us the way you achieve 200k in 3 hours. It took me my entire GW playing history since Factions came out to get to my current 592k faction. I'd love to know how to gain 200k in only 3 hours.

Anet added lots of ways to gain Faction, but also took away an easy way to gain it unfortunately. And afaik it's still as slow as HFFF. So I'd really like to know how Unfaithfull is pulling this off. Detailed explanation please.

And why did they raise Amber to 5k. I'll never get my elite kurzick armor now, wish I'd bought amber from the trader the day before the update. constantly sold out FTL!